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 Houserules discussion for Nerdtopia

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Gideus
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PostSubject: Houserules discussion for Nerdtopia   Fri Jul 25, 2014 4:49 am

One and all we shall discuss the possible changes to our beloved armies and units for our own use in house.
Things to go over are things like Ork Mob Rule, challenges, the wound allotment system etc, as well as campaigns, house units and such.

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PostSubject: Amendments   Fri Jul 25, 2014 3:33 pm

Giddeus, looks fine; would need several tests to verify points.... but have at it.

I would amend alot of the Chaos Codex, but maybe lets start with the BRB....

Return to Charging out of Wrecks? as in; 'Models may not assault the turn they Disembark from Transport Vehicles'

Omit Challenges.

Terminator Armour provides a +2 Toughness in addition to it's current rules.

Jump Packs can be used in both the Movement AND Assault phases.

Models arriving by Deep Strike may not Assault, but Outflankers and Reserves MAY Assault.


Chaos Codex:

I would bring back the missing 4th ed Daemon Weapons.

Legion Cult Marines can be taken as troops If there is an HQ with the Same Mark or No Mark (Can't have a Tzeench sorcerer alone leading Troop Berzerkers)

Any Unit that can take a Dedicated Transport can choose a Drop Pod as the SM codex. (count Storm Bolters as TLBolter, and no Deathwind option)

Chaos Space Marines do not have to pay for Additional CCW: they come with all 3.

Icons are unit upgrades, not held by a single model.

Units that purchase BOTH a Mark and VotLW gain Fearless and an additional benefit according to the mark purchased:
Khorne: Ws+1 and A +1
Slaanesh: May purchase Sonic weapons as Noise Marine entry, and always count as having Assault Grenades for the purposes of combat.
Nurgle: gain FNP and Defensive Grenades. Also if armed with a CCW gain Poison 4+.
Tzeench: Instead of a bonus to Invulnerable Saves, the models Sv becomes Invunlerable. Gain Inferno Bolts as Thousand Sons.

Every Walker in the book could loose 20pts.
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Gideus
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PostSubject: Re: Houserules discussion for Nerdtopia   Fri Jul 25, 2014 5:06 pm

Quote :
Legion Cult Marines can be taken as troops If there is an HQ with the Same Mark or No Mark (Can't have a Tzeench sorcerer alone leading Troop Berzerkers)
I'd bring back the Mark of Chaos Undivided.

I completely agree with the "mark" based Demon weapons, the free CCW and the Standard being a unit based option (like no one else can pick the damned thing up?)

Quote :
Units that purchase BOTH a Mark and VotLW gain Fearless and an additional benefit according to the mark purchased:
Khorne: Ws+1 and A +1
Slaanesh: May purchase Sonic weapons as Noise Marine entry, and always count as having Assault Grenades for the purposes of combat.
Nurgle: gain FNP and Defensive Grenades. Also if armed with a CCW gain Poison 4+.
Tzeench: Instead of a bonus to Invulnerable Saves, the models Sv becomes Invunlerable. Gain Inferno Bolts as Thousand Sons.

Rather than this, I'd give the option to certain units (terminators, raptors, bikers) to be upgraded to "cult" status, for a higher-than-a-mark point value that effectively makes them, for example, berzerker bikers or Noise terminators. Could even just give the unit themselves the option to take items. ie: If a unit of berzerkers take the bike option, they become a FA choice. If the unit buys terminator armor, they become elites.

Walkers alone just need an overall fix to make them as survivable as MC's. Maybe just add HP's? A dread/helbrute with 6 or so HP does become threatening.

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PostSubject: Re: Houserules discussion for Nerdtopia   Fri Jul 25, 2014 9:38 pm

I think a re-work of CSM may be something I would look at first.

I dont personally find anything wrong with wound allocation, tanking wounds CAN be obnoxious, but is there something else thats an issue? Barrage maybe?

Charging out of a vehicle that does not move needs to be a thing. I'm open to arguments otherwise, but I dont know of any that are valid.
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PostSubject: Re: Houserules discussion for Nerdtopia   Fri Jul 25, 2014 9:52 pm

Actually, before we dive into solutions, taking a page out of my real life suffering...should we not determine first the problems we need to solve?
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PostSubject: Re: Houserules discussion for Nerdtopia   Fri Jul 25, 2014 10:02 pm

I think NL had a good start on the issues. So do we start with the BRB or CSM first?


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PostSubject: Re: Houserules discussion for Nerdtopia   Sat Jul 26, 2014 12:58 am

No I'm talking higher level. We could scattershot unit tweaks until we are old and gray(er) than I already am.

I am talking about what is systemically wrong, and what would be the general adjustments needed.

That said, its been a long week, and its late..I should likely not try and use my brain at the moment.
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PostSubject: Re: Houserules discussion for Nerdtopia   Sat Jul 26, 2014 1:29 am

See, I personally don't think the system itself is broken. I think a few unit types are lacking (looking at you walkers)

I think it boils down to two things:
one) fluff not matching rules, which is always hard to do, but makes certain units seem underpowered or overcosted.
example: terminators being so vulnerable to small arms fire. Yes, lascannons should kill them, but not lasguns as easily

two) units that have a job/purpose but are not equipped/tailored for it OR the opposite, units that do a job well, but are designed for something else
example: any assault unit without assault grenades (howling banshees, genestealers)

a perfect mix of the two is the mauler/forgefiend which by all rights should be an MC but isn't.

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PostSubject: Re: Houserules discussion for Nerdtopia   Sat Jul 26, 2014 3:22 am

I haven't played any amount of 7th, but I recall from elsewhere that is very much 6th. With this, I am still interested in participating in the discussion, but only in sporadic bursts. And so....


You guys seem to find terminators are not survivable enough? I suppose in squads of 5-10 it is a big deal?

6th's wound allocation was fine for me, the look out sirs were good.

Quote :
Jump Packs can be used in both the Movement AND Assault phases.
I think I agree. I will definitely have to review the rules as they are foggy. They seem almost "fast enough" but if they have to use jump packs only for the charge to benefit from HoW, then ya. Change it. Maybe that's not a level headed request. I'll look into unit types some more.
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PostSubject: Re: Houserules discussion for Nerdtopia   Sat Jul 26, 2014 9:56 pm

I've got an idea to tone down the psychic powers just a little bit. treat them similar to remains in plays in fantasy. Players Manifest and Deny the power as per normal except player 2 gets another chance to deny it in his own phsychic phase if he wishes with his own dice.

example; Player one casts some uber blessings like iron arm and the feel no pain one, Player 2 throws all his dice to deny but fails. Player one assaults and ownes. On player 2's turn in his phsychic phase he can attempt to deny with the normal modifiers except he only needs to deny a number equal to the warp charge number on the power itself. That way you dont have to keep track of it And its possible for someone with no phsychers to still deny cause they would still get D6. And player 1 would not be able to use his dice to do anything about it either.
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PostSubject: Re: Houserules discussion for Nerdtopia   Mon Jul 28, 2014 1:20 am

BRB Issues
So, not having done much in the psychic phase, is it overpowered now? Do we need to work on it per Lelaco suggestion?

Any fixes for walkers anyone can think of? some kind of increased HPs? A save of some kind?

Deepstriking and assaults
Should certain units be able to? Outflanking/Infiltrate only? or like with vehicles should certain units just gain the "assault" modifer?

Codex Issues
Chaos Space Marines
Cult units: simple solution, allow cult units to purchase bikes/terminator armor/jump packs?
Then move them to another category? Only cults that start as troops can buy these option?
Ie: berzerker lord, so berzerkers are troops. They can then buy terminator armor, but they are then berzerker terminators and move to elites? buy jump packs and you have berzerker raptors but move to FA?

Lords and Marks: Marks give lords the same abilities as the cults.
- Khorne lord also gains +1WS and Furious Charge as well as Rage and Counterattack.
- Plague Lords also gain FnP on top of +1T.
- Slaanesh Lords gain access to sonic weaponry as well as +1I
- Tzeentch Sorcerors gain Inferno Bolts and +1 Inv save

mauler/forgefiend and defiler.
How to fix these guys?

thats all for now to chew on

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