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 Gottacon List C! - The Wolves of Space!

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PostSubject: Gottacon List C! - The Wolves of Space!   Mon Feb 27, 2012 12:21 pm

Foot Space Wolf + 3 Pods.

A nice aggressive Termi squad, 2 Long Fangs with attached Cyclone Terminators, and the S10 Delivery System (2 TCav with Fist/TH), then 40 Marines on foot with 4 melta and 4 combimelta and 2 Claw, 2 Fist for the squad leaders.

Wolf Lord - 100
Termi - 40
Wolf Claw - 15
Wolf Claw - 5
Saga of the Bear (EW) - 35
195

10 Wolf Guard - 180
(Grey Hunters x 4 = 90)
3 x Combi-Melta - 15
1 x Combi-Plasma - 5
2 x Powerfist - 40
2 x Wolf Claw - 30

(Long Fangs x 2 = 90)
2 Terminator - 30
2 Cyclone - 60

(Honour Guard x 4 = 285)
4 Terminator - 60
Power Fist/Stormshield - 25
PW/Stormbolter - Free
Frost Axe/Stormbolter - 5
ThunderHammer/Stormshield - 30
Pod - 35

Wolf Guard Total 515

9 Grey Hunters - 135
Melta Gun - 5
Banner - 10
Pod - 35
185

9 Grey Hunters - 135
Melta Gun - 5
Banner - 10
Pod - 35
185

9 Grey Hunters - 135
Melta Gun - 5
Banner - 10
150

9 Grey Hunters - 135
Melta Gun - 5
140

2 TCav - 100
1 x Powerfist - 25
1 x Thunder Hammer - 30
150

5 Long Fangs - 75
4 Missle Laucher - 40
115

5 Long Fangs - 75
4 Missle Laucher - 40
115
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PostSubject: Re: Gottacon List C! - The Wolves of Space!   Mon Feb 27, 2012 7:30 pm

So, as you taught me, what starts on the table:
-Wolf Lord
-2 squads of Long Fangs
-2 squads of 10 GH
-2 TWC

So, the prioritaztion doens't seem terribly difficult. Can ignore the TWC for the first turn and focus on the long fangs or, if not in range, the GH.

The TWC are 4 T5 wounds with a 3+/- save...that's not really overwhelming? Plague Marines die and they have FnP in addition.

The GH could be a problem because that's -a lot- of bodies, won't lie there.

One of my concerns is that two things that wrecked your BA (i.e. mawlocs and Doom; any templates really) would do the same to this list only your GH are far slower.

Just some thoughts, obviously. I really don't feel like the TWC are a threat though with no additional protection and no Rhinos or Razorbacks to hide behind.

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PostSubject: Re: Gottacon List C! - The Wolves of Space!   Mon Feb 27, 2012 8:32 pm

Cool, I wasnt too sure of things either, Wolves have alot of options (my first 'draft' was 1900 odd points) that seemed good at the time, I'll reassess. :]
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PostSubject: Re: Gottacon List C! - The Wolves of Space!   Mon Feb 27, 2012 11:29 pm

Alright Mr.Panda, rip this one up.

7 Terminators are now advancing on Foot (Lord + CC focused squad), with 2 Long Fangs (4 ML), 2 GH x 10 + 1 Cyclone Terminator (2 ML/Chainfist, 2 Melta), 1 Lone Wolf with Chainfist/Stormshield, and TCav (6 Rending S5 Attacks + Meltabombs).

7 Targets on the field.

Wolf Lord - 100
Termi - 40
Wolf Claw - 15
Wolf Claw - 5
Saga of the Bear (EW) - 35
195

10 Wolf Guard - 180
(Grey Hunters x 2 = 50)
3 x Combi-Melta - 10
2 x Powerfist - 40

(Grey Hunters x 2 = 120)
2 Terminator - 30
2 Chainfist - 30
2 Cyclone - 60

(Honour Guard x 6 = 155)
6 Terminator
Power Fist/Stormshield
PW/Stormbolter
PW/Stormbolter
Frost Axe/Stormbolter
WC/Stormbolter
ThunderHammer/Stormshield

Lone Wolf
Terminator
Stormshield
Chainfist
Fenrisian Wolf

(1st Combi-Melta/Fist WG)
9 Grey Hunters
Melta Gun
Pod

(2nd Combi-Melta/Fist WG)
9 Grey Hunters
Melta Gun
Pod

(1st Cyclone WG)
10 Grey Hunters
Melta Gun
Melta Gun

(2nd Cyclone WG)
10 Grey Hunters
Melta Gun
Melta Gun

1 TCav
Meltabombs

5 Long Fangs
4 Missile Launcher

5 Long Fangs
4 Missile Launcher
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PostSubject: Re: Gottacon List C! - The Wolves of Space!   Mon Feb 27, 2012 11:47 pm

Urgh, thats a nasty list. What do I shoot first.

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PostSubject: Re: Gottacon List C! - The Wolves of Space!   Tue Feb 28, 2012 12:10 am

I am hoping (i guess) that I can provide some kind of cover to the squads, so that I can march those terminators up, using the drop pods to make getting out of a certain space difficult.

The long fangs do what they do, while the Cyclone terminators (mobile heavy 2 ML?! why doesnt chaos get that!) run around and pop other things.

Its certainly more firepower then my BA list, and while its not as mobile, it is far more resilient I think even without the FnP because it can hurt things at 24 inches from every unit really (other then the 2 single models).
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PostSubject: Re: Gottacon List C! - The Wolves of Space!   Tue Feb 28, 2012 1:36 am

Hmmm. More survivability in the termies for sure, plus wound shennanigan fun. Foot-slogging though, no fleet. Going to see a lot of firepower going into that squad from units that can keep away from it.

I think the lone wolf is viable, especially with his "I die, my team gains KP) rule. A unit that forces you to address it but with no viable way to do so.

The GH aren't very scary at range and I doubt they'll get a chance to use those melta.

The TWC still isn't scary but that may work for it. People may ignore it, focusing on other things until it blows up a Land Raider.

The pods could be sacrificial distractions/anti-tank or back-end objective holders.

I know you're trying to make a foot list but with dark eldar and necrons still floating around and crazy GK anti-infantry, I'm just not sure how competitive and viable it is. This list feels better but I still think the target priority is made easier with how slow the list is. Those termies and long fangs can face an awful lot of firepower before the GH need to be addressed.

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PostSubject: Re: Gottacon List C! - The Wolves of Space!   Tue Feb 28, 2012 1:46 am

So I suppose the question is, do you just pack in MORE troops to make it simply too many wounds with 3 ups to handle?
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PostSubject: Re: Gottacon List C! - The Wolves of Space!   Tue Feb 28, 2012 1:47 am

If I knew that, I'd play MEQ armies and win a lot, wouldn't I? Wink

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PostSubject: Re: Gottacon List C! - The Wolves of Space!   Tue Feb 28, 2012 1:47 am

Although, over 5 turns, you couldn't get my 30 genestealers with their crappy 5+ save, right? So maybe those 40 guys might be just fine now that I think about it...

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PostSubject: Re: Gottacon List C! - The Wolves of Space!   Tue Feb 28, 2012 1:20 pm

Ok, so I meditated on this last night, in front of a raging fire, naked, with wolf pelts draped upon my shoulders.....

Part of that is a lie.

ANYWAY

Part of the issue, was me trying to shoehorn in the Thunderwolves. So I thought about it, and if I wanted to go that route, I need to go full on, instead of trying to fit the terminators in.

I LOVE the look of terminators, and the Wolf Guard terminator kit is stupid awesome. As I want to do a foot list, it makes sense (due to Cyclones) to use them. Thinking on it further, I just played with something like Thunderwolves (Bloodcrushers) and so maybe need to shake it up.

The new list, that I am going to try and play test if I can even get this many models on a table.

Quote :
Wolf Lord, 2 Wolf Claws, Terminator, Eternal Warrior
6 Wolf Guard Terminators, 2 PW/SB, Wolf Claw/SB, Frost Axe/SB, Frost Axe/Storm Shield, Thunderhammer/Stormshield

Five units of Grey Hunters
1 - 8 in a Pod w/Melta and WG w/Combi Melta + PF
2 - 8 in a Pod w/Melta and WG w/Combi Melta + PF
3 - 10 in a Pod w/2 Plasma (on foot, the pod is just to force the first 2)
4 - 10 on Foot w/2 Plasma and WG w/Cyclone + Powerfist
5 - 10 on Foot w/2 Plasma and WG w/Cyclone + Powerfist

Long Fangs w/4 ML
Long Fangs w/4 ML

The idea is, to drop the first 2 pods on Turn 1, while I hold an empty pod in reserve deploying all 3 of the 10 man squads on foot, with the Terminators and Long Fangs offering support.

This will give the terminators cover from the 10 man squad letting them run up while the 12 missiles fire hopefully every turn, and the 2 squads that drop in start disrupting things.

In my head its a lot of bodies, and a lot of shooting thats going to force you to engage something, biggest weaknesses would be Mawlocs and Eldar Skimmers, DE skimmers are not nearly an issue due to how soft they are, while Necrons shoot at 24 inches which isnt too bad.

The only other option, is drop one squad for a 3rd long fang.

Detailed List below...

Wolf Lord - 100
Termi - 40
Wolf Claw - 15
Wolf Claw - 5
Saga of the Bear (EW) - 35
195

10 Wolf Guard - 180
(Grey Hunters x 2 = 50)
2 x Combi-Melta - 10
2 x Powerfist - 40

(Grey Hunters x 2 = 110)
2 Terminator - 30
2 Powerfist - 20
2 Cyclone - 60

(Honour Guard x 6 = 150)
6 Terminator - 90
Frost Axe/Stormshield - 20
PW/Stormbolter - Free
PW/Stormbolter - Free
Frost Axe/Stormbolter - 5
WC/Stormbolter - 5
ThunderHammer/Stormshield - 30

Wolf Guard Total 490

8 Grey Hunters - 120
Melta Gun - 5
Pod - 35
160

8 Grey Hunters - 120
Melta Gun - 5
Pod - 35
160

10 Grey Hunters - 150
Plasma - 10
Plasma - Free
Pod -35
195

10 Grey Hunters - 150
Plasma Gun - 10
Plasma Gun - Free
160

10 Grey Hunters - 150
Plasma Gun - 10
Plasma Gun - Free
160

5 Long Fangs - 75
4 Missle Laucher - 40
115

5 Long Fangs - 75
4 Missle Laucher - 40
115
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PostSubject: Re: Gottacon List C! - The Wolves of Space!   Tue Feb 28, 2012 7:37 pm

I can agree with the switch away from TWC due to their BC similarity.

So, why plasma on those 3 foot squads over melta?

Nothing immediately stands out as problematic on this list. I can't really pick anything and say "hey, this is an easy counter." This is a list you should start play-testing.

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PostSubject: Re: Gottacon List C! - The Wolves of Space!   Tue Feb 28, 2012 8:12 pm

The range issues you mentioned actually. Considering the likelihood of getting into 6 inches on the foot meltas, and the fact that S7 AP2 can hurt anyone, vehicles included really (thought less reliably popping things).

It makes the list within the 24 inch range start to get really high levels of shooting damage so you have various range levels that are being hit.

48 - 12 Missiles
24 - Stormbolters, Bolters, Plasma Guns (50+ of them should do something!)
12 - Rapid Fire the above Bolters and Plasma, 2 Melta, 2 Combi Melta.

In my head I am liking what I am seeing.

The plasma also plays into one of the Great Company themes, the Sun Wolf. What a Face

We may be on to something here, thanks for all the feedback!
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PostSubject: Re: Gottacon List C! - The Wolves of Space!   Thu Mar 01, 2012 5:49 pm

More playing around this one functions almost like 2 armies.

Wolf Lord - Terminator, 2 Claws, Fenrisian Wolf, Saga of the Bear (with 4 WG in Pod)

10 Wolf Guard
-- 4 Wolf Guard, 4 Combi-Melta, Pod
-- 2 Terminators attach to 10 man Squads - Cyclone Missile Launchers
-- 4 WG attach to 5 man Squads - Combi-Melta

3 x Lone Wolf, TDA, Chainfist, SS

4 x 5 Grey Hunters, Meltagun, Pod
2 x 10 Grey Hunters, 2 x Plasma Gun

3 x 5 Long Fangs, 4 ML
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PostSubject: Re: Gottacon List C! - The Wolves of Space!   Thu Mar 01, 2012 6:15 pm

That is threatening. Hits alot of the Min/Max points for the codex. Will need lots of testing to play nice. What if you want to Reserve this whole army?? Looks like never. the Fangs will need to start on the table to get their shots in, the Lone Wolves will be suiciding anyway, but will never provide cover to the models behind themselves.... so are you taking the two 10x for board control? as a distraction to shooting your Long Fangs first turn (going first, since there will be new threats if going second)?


It sounds cliche but if you take Logan instead of your lord, and give one of your three LF squads multi meltas. attatch to them a WG with plasma, and Logan (who gives Relelntless), and put them in a pod.

there are disgusting combo's i'm learning about.
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PostSubject: Re: Gottacon List C! - The Wolves of Space!   Thu Mar 01, 2012 7:43 pm

Night Lord wrote:
That is threatening. Hits alot of the Min/Max points for the codex. Will need lots of testing to play nice. What if you want to Reserve this whole army?? Looks like never. the Fangs will need to start on the table to get their shots in, the Lone Wolves will be suiciding anyway, but will never provide cover to the models behind themselves.... so are you taking the two 10x for board control? as a distraction to shooting your Long Fangs first turn (going first, since there will be new threats if going second)?


It sounds cliche but if you take Logan instead of your lord, and give one of your three LF squads multi meltas. attatch to them a WG with plasma, and Logan (who gives Relelntless), and put them in a pod.

there are disgusting combo's i'm learning about.

I've actually been avoiding looking at logan as I have a whole idea for the model for my current lord which is actually the driver of my interest so far. :p

I'll take a look.

EDIT: Yeah thats pretty crazy, in a lot of ways actually, his rules are insane for 275 points. I'll throw a modification together.

Reserve it all. I can do so, but it wont work too great really. If I had more points for pods for the whole thing it could get pretty close to I guess.

Lone Wolves are really there as a deterrent to MC/Walkers coming at the main lines of the Long Fangs/Cyclone lead Grey Hunters. 3 of them can do some decent herding.

Those large squads are there to just give some resilience to a few units, and keep those cyclones shooting for the whole 5+ rounds.

8 Bolters
2 Plasma gun
1 Stormbolter, 2 Frag or Krak Missiles

Its also 30 CC attacks, and 3 Power Weapon attacks in the first round!

From 160 points? Seems awesome.

The Logan + Multi-Melta Fang combo is painful. You pod in, and then either split fire for 2 or 3 shots at 2 items, or make sure something dies for sure. That may be too good to ignore...

EDIT x 2: Silly codex. What a Face

Logan Grimnar
275

10 Wolf Guard - 180
(Grey Hunters x 3 = 15)
3 x Combi-Melta - 15

(Grey Hunters x 2 = 90)
2 Terminators - 30
2 Cyclone ML - 60

(4 Wolf Guard - 20)
4 x Combi-Melta - 20
Pod - 35

(1 Long Fang = 15)
1 x Combi-Plasma,
Power Weapon - 15
175

Lone Wolf - 20
TDA- 25
TH - 15
SS - 25
85

Lone Wolf - 20
TDA- 25
TH - 15
SS - 25
85

Lone Wolf - 20
TDA- 25
TH - 15
SS - 25
85
170

5 Grey Hunters - 75
Melta Gun - 5
Pod - 35
115

5 Grey Hunters - 75
Melta Gun - 5
Pod - 35
115

5 Grey Hunters - 75
Melta Gun - 5
Pod - 35
115

10 Grey Hunters - 150
Plasma Gun - 10
Plasma Gun - Free
160

10 Grey Hunters - 150
Plasma Gun - 10
Plasma Gun - Free
160
665

5 Long Fangs - 75
4 Multi-Melta - 40
Pod - 35
150

5 Long Fangs - 75
4 Missle Laucher - 40
115

5 Long Fangs - 75
4 Missle Laucher - 40
115

380
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PostSubject: Re: Gottacon List C! - The Wolves of Space!   Fri Mar 02, 2012 12:04 pm

Went looking, and I even have a Grimnar model! (He was going to be a converted Chaos Terminator Chosen in the 3.5 days)
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PostSubject: Re: Gottacon List C! - The Wolves of Space!   Fri Mar 02, 2012 1:21 pm

It was fate that you'd get wolves at some point? bounce

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PostSubject: Re: Gottacon List C! - The Wolves of Space!   Fri Mar 02, 2012 2:19 pm

I never intended to, but 3 books I have read recently put me in the mood to look into it. Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: Gottacon List C! - The Wolves of Space!   Fri Mar 02, 2012 2:26 pm

WOW, I even forgot that the 'Logan Bomb' could Split Fire!!!! Too deadly!
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PostSubject: Re: Gottacon List C! - The Wolves of Space!   Fri Mar 02, 2012 2:29 pm

Did you save points switching the Lone Wolves to Thammers instead of Cfists??
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PostSubject: Re: Gottacon List C! - The Wolves of Space!   Fri Mar 02, 2012 2:33 pm

Oh, no those should be fists actually, same cost, and yeah Logan is NUTS for his cost.

I can even modify the list a bit to get the models I really want in there. What this variation lets me do, is give me a scoring termi squad, and if I didnt want/need to drop the melta's in for a sure kill, but set them up somewhere else, Logan gets to deploy in a squad of terminators to give out some Preferred Enemy + Living Legend (+1A) for the turn. He really is insane for a SC.

Logan
4 WG Terminators, 2 x PW/SB, 1 WC/WC, 1 TH/SS, Pod
2 WG Terminators, Cyclones (Large GH Squads)
1 WG Combi-Plasma, Power Weapon (Long Fangs w/MM)
3 WG Combi-Melta (MSU GH Squads)

2 Lone Wolves, CF/SS, TDA

3 x 5 Grey Hunters, Melta, Pod
2 x 10 Grey Hunters, 2 x Plasmagun

2 x 5 Long Fangs, 4 ML
5 Long Fangs, 4 MM, Pod

I really like this list a lot actually, and will probably try this one for a few games.
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PostSubject: Re: Gottacon List C! - The Wolves of Space!   Fri Mar 02, 2012 8:05 pm

Badass.


In pure competative terms, the Termi Squad might not have enough on it's own..... are the two SB doing much for you?? cheap i guess. One more SS would help them out...
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PostSubject: Re: Gottacon List C! - The Wolves of Space!   Fri Mar 02, 2012 8:16 pm

Yeah they arent doing much, I could pull the 15 needed from the Plasma gun Wolf Guard and just have him as a wound soak and give one of the PW/SB guys a Stormshield.
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PostSubject: Re: Gottacon List C! - The Wolves of Space!   Fri Mar 02, 2012 9:32 pm

This thread is making me wish every codex was "Space Wolf good". Sad

Not saying the others are under-powered or anything but this thread is really showing how versatile the SW dex is and how many different ways there are to play it competitively.

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