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 Apocalypse games and fixes/setups

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Gideus
Warmith
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PostSubject: Apocalypse games and fixes/setups   Tue Apr 03, 2012 6:41 pm

So, after the Dice Bag apoc game, and the game at Xmas, what do you think would make for a good apoc game?
Lets discuss things like what unit types should be in or out, table setups, terrain, formations and everything else that would make for a good game maybe at McCon III or even just another get together game.

Units:
I think capping super heavies is a necessity, either for each player or for each team. Having a balanced amount would make the game more enjoyable I think, but things like numbers of MC's and Apoc formations would also adjust that as some either counter super heavies directly or make them better.

Table setup:
I liked having a separate "artillery" table, but rules for getting to it better would have been nice. Allowing more units to get there and get off as well without getting "trapped" and having no purpose would have made it a more interesting objective.
I also like the setup the tables had at the Xmas game.

Terrain: I think more and varied terrain would be nice, but thats just me.

I think theming a game or adding other ways to play besides the 5 objectives could also be fun, as I enjoyed the xmas game and its roaming elves immensely.

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PostSubject: Re: Apocalypse games and fixes/setups   Wed Apr 04, 2012 12:11 am

At the 20K per side, honestly the number of super heavies was totally fine. I really think if the Nids had deployed with us on the table, we would have drove the good guys clean off the table.

To get the most 'balance' I think something like I said on FB would work.

2500 Points each
1 Super Heavy, under...2k? I dont know. I am inclined to say 'its apoc, let people do what they want'
1 Scoring Unit Minimum with a solid amount of your points at least spent here. Think 500+ points here.
D weapons or not, it hardly matters against things like Helhammer Cannons.

If someone wanted to 'trade' their superheavy that would be fine as well.

Timing
10 Minutes for each team to discuss the upcoming turn.
10 Minutes to move
10 Minutes to shoot
15 Minutes to assault

Tables
The 25th anniversary White Dwarf had a huge Apoc game, it had multiple tables, and the winners on those tables could join the main game. Each game was a different expansion. I thought it was an insanely cool idea for a massive game.

Night Lord and I discussed it a bit, and really the game almost always works out. If you bring too many super heavies, you dont have the troops or scoring units needed.

Terrain, it needs to be set up evenly. Its all well and good to give one side the terrain, but if you do not plan for that with super heavies, and essentially script the scenario to balance it, you can have some serious issues for some armies. A gunline that also gets cover vs a troop heavy army on foot that doesnt get cover = good game on turn one.

I have that big terrain piece, and the whole sector set is only like, $100 so we could easily get some other large city theme pieces if we wanted.
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PostSubject: Re: Apocalypse games and fixes/setups   Wed Apr 04, 2012 4:31 am

I think it will take a bit more experience with relative sizes.

It's like hitting the Zoom Out button once; more terrain, and larger terrain is in view. this is an opportunity to have a large hill or gate block alot of LOS.

I think that the players who developed these SH rules know what they're doing. As SRG said, just like a single Force Org, if a battleforce includes too many support or shock troops and not enough boots on the ground they have trouble in objective missions, which all apoc game are. That being said, a multiplayer game is a totally different beast. In my experience the best keep everyone in the game until someone wins, but this is an attrition game, so it is more fun for more people if groups of units aren't blasted off the table all at once. it's a nice picture to have the super heavies, and it doesn't hurt much to pick up two squads when you have 10,000 points on the table, but if you're picking up two of the five squads you brought to the multiplayer.... the issue is the difference between the overall game effect of superheavies (analytically) and the Personal effect of sending large groups packing all at once. Also more players will FEEL like the game is more balanced if both sides have an equal, and perhaps separate points pool for SHs.

If the recent game had had another objective at the necron end of the table, which there should have been, the game may have tied.


What if the tables were set up in a W or M so people can reach to the middle but creates a more bullseye (clusterfuck) feel rather than a long battle line (feels like pitched battle)?

I liked that each team placed objectives in all deployment and neutral zones, and I liked the Xmas objectives that could escape. That idea came from an old friend who was a great DM and was willing to give great items to players, but was also willing to take those things away (players care more about lost items).

It could also be two dozen objectives on the table to start, and each has to be investigated before revealing which 2D6 are significant.... The general idea is to make the objectives more dynamic to keep players more attentive and involved over a long time.


10 minute rounds could be cool, just set the precident that other people can at least roll for your models, if you're busy elsewhere. lets not have players standing arround while other rush to finish..
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PostSubject: Re: Apocalypse games and fixes/setups   Wed Nov 07, 2012 4:50 pm

Has there been major changes to Apoc with the arrival of 6th?
With the FW update to super heavies and the other rules, I believe it still works the same.
Anyone have anything they think has needs of tweaking for 6th?

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