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 6th - Army List Concepts

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srg
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PostSubject: 6th - Army List Concepts   Tue Jul 10, 2012 7:26 pm

So, heres a topic for you all.

Assumption
1. The best list, is an 'all comer' (shh you in the back) list that has variety and the ability to handle the new Eternal War missions.

I'm not looking for the best 'stomp your face' concept, or the theme concept, but instead, looking at the missions, what do you feel are good concepts to build around?

1. Troops in spades. Only 1 out of 6 doesnt require capture of something, meaning you need troops.
1a. Troops must be out of vehicles! You either need numbers, or resiliency to stick around.

2. Two of the missions let you capture with HS or FA respectively. Considering HS is good at holding back field, and FA is good at getting into the opponents Deployment Zone, and we are looking to satisfy as many of the objectives as possible, you could consider these as good slots to fill (...)

2a. On the other hand, perhaps you dont bring any HS, or FA as they give up Victory Points in those special scenario's where they do score.

3. Minor VP conditions. First Kill, Linebreaker, and killing the HQ all matter more now.

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All that in mind, how are you thinking of addressing these? Sticking to the same builds you ran previously? Spamming troops?

For me, I am looking at bringing at least 1 HS with range, probably a Wagon with a Kannon of some type, and I would like to fill out the last FA slot in my list (bringing 2 jets at all times!)

I'll probably get some Gretchin as well since they are insanely cheap.
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PostSubject: Re: 6th - Army List Concepts   Tue Jul 10, 2012 7:51 pm

I think playing with the same army as before will work, its HOW you use your units now that matters most. Things like flanking units, positioning your "doods" right and such make a huge difference now.
I think troops are no more or less important than before.
I think armored units (mech) is not as vital but still holds an important place in the game as yes once you start getting weight of fire you can be doomed, but most vehicles (tanks I am thinking) still bring on average longer range weaponry to the field of battle, and if you DO position them right, you will still have them survive a decent amount of time, especially with the advantage of needing less cover to hide them.
I think the same for walkers, that while they got nerfed a bunch, the being able to move in and out of cover and move their position and keep firing makes them versatile and decent weapons platforms.

I think the game will take some mental adjustment to get comfy with, but the armies we have should not need much changing, as I still think everything has its place, its just finding it again Smile

ALSO more than any other edition, we need to start playing games that are scenario based, where WE come up with the "Story" of the battle and then play it out. The examples in the Battle section have me itching to build boards and terrain for special fights or campaigns.

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PostSubject: Re: 6th - Army List Concepts   Wed Jul 11, 2012 4:09 pm

Definitly agree that positioning is of greater importance now. Flanking matters, range on vehicles is a huge issue as it plays into that positioning item.

I do think however that when you dig a bit deeper you can see where the meta will shift (at least this is the guess that I had after first looking at the rules).

1. Cover is decreased, a 5+ for obscured is all you get as a Vehicle with Smoke now.
2. Hull points capping at 4 for large items, 3 for most, and 2 for the small stuff is a very large impact, compounded by item 1!
3. Glancing removing Hull Points.

Take just those 3 items into consideration.

You will be hit more often, and you can only be damaged 3 times (most vehicles) before you are wrecked. Instead of it becoming critical to bring high STR shots, especially melta, these changes increase greatly the effectiveness of higher rate of fire weapons, such as Autocannons. A 4 AC Havoc squad for example? Forget about it, thats 1 toasted vehicle per round, easily.

If your vehicles now die easier, then you suddenly need to look at what it was those vehicles carried around. An MSU 5 man MEQ squad is suddenly going to be out on the table far earlier then before.

Long term, I think we will see more Infantry, in greater numbers, less vehicles (certainly less Rhino chassis) and more middle of the road Str, high ROF weapons (dakkafex, lootas, AC Havocs, maybe even 4 x HB squads).

HP 2 or 3, and AV 12 or Less, is going to be a death sentence I think. :p


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All that said, I would totally be up for playing the expansions, City of Death, Planetstrike, and so on. I'm already getting close to filling out 1 FOC so will be getting into those random setups soon enough.
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Night Lord
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PostSubject: Re: 6th - Army List Concepts   Wed Jul 11, 2012 5:03 pm

Wow, so much in the book (fortifications/mysterious terrain) could make those missions without expansions....

I agree very much with both Giddeus and SRG. Positioning, Troops and weight of fire will all be necessary in this eddition. Large/Maxed squads will become the norm, rather than MSU. Dakka Pred may make a comback, sincde even a stock vanilla one can move 12" and shoot everything at a Flyer at 'full' BS (1)

For me, I see two factions really. Those who can now take thier Fluff further, with more useable units and allies. and those who will use scoring HS/Flyers and Allies to WAAK.

I think SPAM will decline, as Mixed arms will be needed (full toolbox).

more later
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PostSubject: Re: 6th - Army List Concepts   Wed Jul 11, 2012 6:20 pm

Yep good points!

I would have rocked CSM + Daemons just for the pure fluffy awesomeness!

I dont think I'll do down the min/max allies route (till maybe Gottacon) as right now I have too much to learn first about the game and Orks. I also agree on the full toolbox approach. A combined arm's approach will both be the most visually interesting, and hopefully competitive option.
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PostSubject: Re: 6th - Army List Concepts   Thu Jul 12, 2012 2:20 am

Tournaments will have to be taken one at a time. Each will have it's own interpretation of the Force Org options. Brood of Dakkafexes with a genestealer bodyguard on a purchased Skysheild pad for 4++?!!

I could make a LONG list of specific lists or ideas, but I think that is just a symptom of this edition really opening up alot of possibilities:

Termi Wing (Belial/Logan/Draigo)
LR spam
Flyer spam
Monster Circus
Bike/Jetbike
Horde/Mob

yay!

It will take a long time to find little Allies pairings and fun little combos Smile
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PostSubject: Re: 6th - Army List Concepts   Thu Jul 12, 2012 6:16 pm

Yeah, the allies section opens up more then a person can really support :p

FW also released the Allies for their army lists, Orks + Ork Dread Mob list will likely happen just for kicks.
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